A Nation of Heroes: State-Education in Sparta (0)
Sweat and Blood (0)
a road of hell: my soul is pretty much dead (0)
Excellence, Honor, and the Molding of Men (0)
read something every day (0)
In respect of fallen warriors (0)
anal action, ugh! (0)
celebrating our manhood, our masculinity, and the uniting of our dicks (0)

One Christian's Journey (0)

Frot modes: The things we tend to regret in life are the things we don't do (0)

Letter from a College Student (0)

The FIGHT Ethic (0)
AIDS FUNNIES: American HIV cases surge by 48%; widely used AIDS drug doubles risk of heart attack; AIDS vaccine fails miserably; NY Times editorializes AGAINST prevention (0)
The Last of Mr Ledger (0)
Nature and the Soldier (0)
an attack on men being together (0)
The Brokenbacked Beatification of Heathcliff Ledger (0)
AGOGE Reply III: The Longing for Masculinity (0)
Temples or sewers? (0)
Affirming the Masculine (0)
Wonderful Site (0)
For life and love (0)
Moderation and the Greeks (0)
AGOGE Reply II: Flesh and Spirit (0)
Take You On At The Pond (0)
The Story of Uncle John (0)
Becoming One in the Fight: The Intimacy of Aggression (0)
Jesus: The Masculine Warrior (0)
Cro-Magnon Frot (0)
AGOGE: The Spear-Points of Young Men Blossom There (0)
our American forced Hetero-sexualized society (0)
The Discovery of Frot and What an onion taught me about anal 'sex' (0)
Escaping the trap of heterosexualization (0)
it's never too late to connect (0)
Warriors & Soldiers (0)
there is nothing more erotic than rubbing two cocks together (0)
struggling on the way back up (0)
in honor of my cousin/lover/frot brother (0)
the wholesome wonder in man-to-man, dick-to-dick (0)
Full Mount Fight (0)
Acting heterosexism's script: the Senator from Idaho (0)
Wrestling Among the Yurok (0)
Warriorhood and Male Intimacy (0)
Fighting is part of the Human Condition (0)
She Didn't Understand (0)
You can't tell a fish he's all wet! (0)
Bisexuality fuels NYC syphilis outbreak (0)
male-to-male sensual bonding (0)
Acting heterosexism's script: the myth of male promiscuity (0)
Modern Promiscuity (0)
The Deification of Antinous (0)
Normal and Natural (0)
HIV predators drug, rape, and inject victims with HIV poisoned blood (0)
I ain't no baby -- I'm a MAN; or, Self-Impedance (0)
Men, War, Promiscuity, Affluence, and AIDS (0)
Please remember... (1)
Religious Right Kook and the NY Times agree: Gay sex is anal sex (0)
To Suffer and Be Strong (0)
NY Times attacks "Manly" movie and its "Warrior Ethic" (10)
Huge, strong men walked by each other and hugged (0)
The Passing of Tarzan (1)
To come together man 2 man (0)
Oral Sex, HPV, and Oral Cancer (0)
Critics claim LAPD has 'warrior culture' (0)
The Strange Case of the Straight Gay Porn Star (0)
Your future under analism Pt 2: The Divorcement of Genitality from Sexuality (or) Buttholes on Parade (2)
his valour plain to see (2)
The Warrior Male (0)
BP Exec Exposed!! (1)
love him for the man he is (0)
married cockbonding (0)
About Ted Haggard (13)
NO DONATIONS NO SITES (0)
sweat the sacrament of naked valour (0)
A moment of reflection for those who died in the Virginia Tech massacre (1)
Pseudo-Masculinity or Natural Masculinity? (2)
I haven't been posting because Patrick has been very ill. (2)
Uganda's Message of Fear, Fidelity Diluted by Western Remedies; HIV Rate Rising (0)
HIV + gay men 90 times more likely to develop anal cancer; HIV predator boasts of infecting underage youth; femmy declares "we can't fight"; condom promoter says "feelings matter" (0)
The Weight Room (1)
Sacred Phallic Love: The Holy Sacrament of Frot (0)
HIV and syphilis (1)
Serial adulterer Newt Gingrich courted by religious right; leading Baptist calls for butchering the unborn to eliminate "homosexuality"; evangelical MD abandons private practice to combat global warming; is there a SPARTAN connection? (3)
My Journey to Frot (3)
MEND (0)
Frot among the animals (3)
An Indiana man speaks (0)
The Suppression of Manhood and the Rise of AIDS (1)
Men being Men (0)
Multiple Partners Drive HIV Epidemic in Southern Africa -- and Elsewhere; European destruction of MC MANHOOD rituals and European distribution of condoms blamed (1)
a message of respect (2)
Heterosexism's control over masculinity (1)
The Mingling of Their Bones (1)
Haggard defeats homosexuality in three months; told by church to get out of town -- and find another line of work (4)
Fourth anti-gay pastor outed; offered cop a blow-job (1)
Another way to view this board (0)
UK gays rushing to get HPV vaccine -- developer says it's a "waste of money"; male circumcision found even more effective against HIV (0)
Crimes against nature (3)
More Girls Take Part in High School Wrestling (0)
NYC Condoms, NYC Censorship (0)
Dr Chin gets some ink; AIDS honcho gets called on his expense account; barebackers get some prison time; UK activists protest (1)
a sublime, beautiful act (0)
Third pastor outed -- commits suicide (2)
Wrestling Rides -- Get to know your man (0)
Achilles on Scyros (0)
And now a few words from Publius Papinius Statius (1)
The Comradeship of Wounds (0)
Hip Control in Pankration (1)
It just happens (1)
The MAN Area II (0)
My best friend. (2)
Microbicide fails in clinical trials; Highly resistant HIV found in Seattle gay men (0)
Zeus Worship (0)
This just in: Gay men using drugs, getting infected with HIV (0)
first time frot-wrestle? (2)
Something Extraordinary (8)
like water in the desert (2)
Heterosexism's encroachment on masculinity (2)
The Metrics of Analism, or, Pissing in the Soup (0)
The Politics of Loneliness (2)
Wishing everyone a Safe and Happy Holiday Season (1)
Their world was completely imbued with Spirit: Warriors and Warrior Amulets (2)
The Politics of MC (0)
2nd pastor resigns over gay sex scandal (6)
my first time (18)
Note to TC (0)
Manifesto (0)
sex, lies, and the Catholic right (2)
HIV potentiated by malaria; HIV-infected intestinal cells never recover (0)
Condoms over Alabama, or, Mayor Stir Fries Con (0)
Deleted by analist spite: FROT IS REALLY HOT! (0)
submission (0)
Deleted by analist spite: Situation in Scotland (0)
It is not the same (0)
little guys, nerds, and shadow warriors (5)
Cowardly sabotage -- deleted by analist spite (4)
Nobility and Strength of Character (3)
World AIDS Day 2006: HIV treatment interruptions don't work, a huge international clinical trial shows (0)
World AIDS Day 2006: Brit gay men spreading HIV; UK AIDS activists blame homophobia (0)
World AIDS Day 2006: France to fight AIDS with 20-cent condoms; HIV among Aussie Gay men at "epidemic levels" (0)
Masculinity Slowly Losing Options To Femininity (5)
RFK's Grief and the Greeks (0)
World AIDS Day 2006: Testicular HIV can't be stopped by HAART (0)
Orion and the winter sky (1)
Young men, frot and the (uncertain) future (3)
A Brother Falls !! (2)
National Minority AIDS Council discovers cause of AIDS (2)
A toast to all Frot-brothers! (11)
HIV rate of WSW as compared to MSM (0)
While society slouches towards matriarchy, single-sex schools make a comeback -- is the agoge far behind? (6)
I'm in love -- now what? (1)
Too Close for Comfort (0)
truth lights our way (0)
Does stigma cause AIDS? (0)
Please do NOT delete any messages (4)
bludgeoned (9)
effeminacy mockery of women (0)
The cost of HIV (0)
Large rise in HIV rates among gay men (0)
Always been into frot (2)
The Dutch Experiment (5)
The White Party vs Black Africa (0)
Challenge Grant: Double Your Alliance Donation (3)
Bonds Among Soldiers, World War I (10)
MSM HIV TIMELINE (0)
cuntboys and fascism (10)
Red Cross Accepts Blood Donations From Frot Men - Rejects Analists! (1)
200 men seeded and pozzed: a barebacker's rampage (0)
neuroAIDS (0)
Analism dogs sires and bitches (0)
Gaining Intimacy (2)
Getting fucked up the ass is FABULOUS (1)
very very busy (0)
I am a frotbrother (1)
S&M the facist game (1)
Funded by $405,000 from federal government, "AIDS activists" boogie on down at Florida resort, refuse to discuss non-anal alternatives (2)
simple math (0)
Field of Queens (4)
Is Homosexuality A Sin? (8)
UFC goes Mainstream (1)
AIDS Awareness Campaign Calls HIV a "Gay Disease" (0)
The Warrior God (0)
The fruits of heterosexualization: "Christian" website pushes anal and fisting; Slate warns of big increase in HETERO anal (2)
Viral Blood Levels Don't Indicate Course of HIV Infection (0)
grooming (0)
Brothers in arms (2)
the emergence of analism and its relation to gay liberation (1)
A Woman's Viewpoint: Guys doing Frot is extremely erotic to me (0)
from longhouse to hidey-hole (9)
Creating a Masculine, socially dignified space: Loving a Man as a Man (0)
Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor (1)
eyes window to the soul; aggressive stance (0)
Warriors or Soldiers (4)
NY Times goes gaga for the girl within, endorses prison buttfucking (0)
MANBALLS (1)
Blindsided (0)
frot sex is not a fetish (1)
What are they thinking? (2)
danger meth can lead to hiv infection among frot brothers (1)
touching penises when hugging (3)
DONATE! DONATE! DONATE! (3)
"terrible, irreversible damage" -- Dr. Myron Cohen on HIV, anal, and AIDS (0)
A straight man who loves men (2)
Go Shirtless: In support of a brother!! (2)
AIDS at 25: Good-bye Toronto (0)
Feminist quote of the day: Our phallocentric military (0)
Gender reassignment (0)
dental health is important (1)
The Decline of Masculinity in The Machine Stops (1)
Death-peddlers (0)
resistance and evolution (1)
DONATIONS ARE TOO LOW (0)
MAN SPACE (1)
Gay HIV rate skyrocketing (0)
How effective have MSM condom campaigns actually been? (0)
men without marriage (3)
AIDS at 25: Barebackin in DC (1)
AIDS at 25: Co-infection worries soar; Homosexuals compared to prostitutes (1)
AIDS at 25: Making condoms stylish for everyone (0)
AIDS at 25: Culture wars at white heat (0)
natural war vs wmd (2)
AIDS at 25: Celebs swarm to Toronto AIDS Conference (0)
Frot in Europe vs. the US (1)
the Man area (0)
Definitions (0)
NATURAL MASCULINITY and the weight of the lies (1)
balls and the man (0)
Living with HIV not easy (0)
male identity (1)
Natural masculinity and same-sex needs (0)
Fighting is good. (1)
MASCULINE POWER Web (0)
HIV prevalence up 16% in Canada; drug toxicity, depression seen in aging HIVers (0)
Are some men naturally macho? (2)
THE POWER OF THE MASCULINE (12)
PEP and HIV big winners at Outgames (0)
The defamation of male love (1)
Men, War, and History (0)
daddys and punks tops and bottoms (0)
The myth of Sneferu (1)
A memory shared for all of us (1)
A Box That Fits (8)
Life in the trash heap (0)
THE FALLACY OF THE FEMININE (2)
fasting church (2)
honorable and sexy (0)
birdflu the analist nightmare (0)
Less than a "Real Man" (3)
Freeballing is good (1)
BlackWidows (1)
Help Freedom (0)
New HIV drug causes fatal bleeding; toxicity among other HIV drugs a major concern (0)
analism a form of scat / oralism = cannibalism (2)
An electrical demonstration (0)
Analists to Bill Weintraub: you should be put in jail (5)
you should be put in jail (12)
Pride. Not. (1)
Gay Day 2006: on the suppression of dissent (2)
Working for nothing (3)
Straight to Bi-Poly to Gay to MSM: Personal Memoirs (0)
Where do we go from here? (3)
Gay AIDS reporter gets infected; says he doesn't want to know why (7)
Broadening our base (0)
frot and wrestling (0)
Rise in Aussie MSM HIV infections attributed to "accidents"; new HIV treatment fraught with danger (0)
Fighting is Man. Man is Good. (2)
risk behavior, risk behavior, risk behavior, risk behavior (1)
wrestling with a friend (0)
Channeling Judy (1)
Being a Father (0)
Going fishing (0)
NO DONATIONS NO SITES (3)
Frot Promotional Slogans...Just For Fun (0)
standing up for what is right (2)
Warrior Thought for the Day (3)
A Man's Word & Bond (1)
Frot and health professionals (0)
Rush, the Attack, & etc. (3)
Huge percentage jump in gay HIV infection (0)
Why aren't Frot Men part of the AIDS prevention picture? (2)
I miss my friend -- Memories of a small boy (0)
Feminist author attacks warrior homoeroticism (0)
the appropriate role for a masculine man (0)
Death wish or assisted suicide? (0)
A True Warrior (1)
Frotpot (0)
HELP YOURSELF (0)
Against the odds and honor between warriors (0)
I have everything I could ever want! (5)
Remember (0)
Screaming bloody murder (0)
the weight of the lies (1)
Can't handle it (2)
"Gay for Pay" (2)
intercourse not outercourse (4)
I need some answers (4)
X MEN 3 (0)
Fundraiser is very slow -- please help (2)
MAN2MAN ALLIANCE May Fundraiser -- We Need Your Support (2)
need help from cock brothers out there (4)
Fight the gay marriage ban if you favor LTR (0)
Good news for drug makers (1)
email problems (0)
Syphilis up 87% among gay men (0)
Tiny and Stable? (7)
NY Times creams its jeans for drag; Harvard honors "Transgender Leader"; Frat boys fined for mocking Brokeback (2)
The Warrior Ethos (2)
honor and integrity (1)
Jesus and the Truth (3)
Death Before Dishonor (1)
UFC Ultimate Fighter (4)
MAN-PHOBIA: Fired for being into UFC (6)
too male (0)
10% of New HIV Cases Carry Mutant Strain (0)
A Tale of Two Tattoos (2)
AIDS treatment linked to severe brain damage (2)
A culture of mistrust (1)
KEEP IT ALIVE! (0)
Brit buttboy guilty of infecting boyfriend; UK "HIV activists" protest (0)
memories reawakened (1)
NEW: Warrior Christendom and WARRIORS! (0)
Your future under analism, Pt 1: PREP (0)
Defeated in their own minds (0)
The Gully (0)
My true story (1)
looking for insight. (2)
In the hospital (0)
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I Never thought... (1)
we're just men! (2)
Two men can be one (8)
Kind of new to this (1)
Straight8 Acting?? (1)
married cockbonding needs (9)
Death of a Frot Brother (1)
minefields of the mind (3)
I thought I was a freak! (2)
The Warrior Art of Max Stella (2)
ONE PLANET/ONE RACE! (1)
ARE THERE REALLY WARRIORS? (7)
Warrior Christendom (1)
Brave New Gay World (1)
BOYCOTT Brokeback Mountain (18)
Frot Symbols! (2)
New To Frot (1)
Fist Fuckers of America (0)
The answer to so many questions (1)
Donations are too low to sustain the site (0)
i was infected needlessly (0)
Depraved Bitches (3)
WARRIORS! (7)
AMOR MASCULUS (3)
Many People with Drug-Resistant HIV Having Unprotected "Sex" (0)
The Templars (2)
AIDS agency arranges bathhouse tours for virgins (6)
Analist eunuch whores (0)
Surgeon General Issues Warning on Anal Penetration (3)
World AIDS Day or World Anal Day? Anal Cancer Rate Up; Evangelicals In; Condoms All Around (0)
A Call to all true WARRIORS!! (2)
RAPE CULTURE (18)
The Inner Sanctum (1)
A Gay Anti-Conformist (7)
The Debasement of Language Under Analism (0)
dubya dun it (1)
Homophobes (0)
Fighting is man (2)
Barebackin buttboy bottoms out behind bars (1)
My wrestling life (1)
Circuit Parties and HIV: Then and Now, or Ahead of Our Time (2)
HPV and Anal: Then and Now; or, Ahead of Our Time (0)
Warriors Speak II (1)
Even with HAART, HIV Damages Brain (1)
What choice? (1)
The Ultimate Defeat (0)
an anus is not a vagina, parts 2 and 3 (0)
Walter Odets, the sex police, and the big lie (3)
HIV-meth link questioned (2)
Genuine friendships (1)
The Anal Sex Myth: A Frottage Manifesto (6)
Great site, count me in !!! (1)
Happy Holidays to everyone (4)
THE YEARNING (0)
Makes Sense (0)
First frot: sensory overload surprise (0)
It just makes sense (1)
Achilles in the steam room (0)
Donations are far, far, far, far, far too low (0)
freedom for ALL men (0)
Frot and the Married Man (2)
Teen pregnancies plummet (0)
Superheroes, Myths and Wrestling Buddies (11)
College (3)
THRILLA IN MANILA (4)
Can the M2M world be changed? (0)
Condom promotion in Uganda not reducing HIV risk, study shows (0)
Donations are far too low to keep us online (5)
Katrina and HIV: our blighted response (0)
The Greatest Gift (1)
HIV, HPV, anal cancer, and HAART (0)
A huge mistake (8)
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Anal and monogamy (0)
Calling ALL True Warriors (1)
Problems with my partner (3)
Rub Me The Right Way (0)
awesome c2c (0)
Whatever happened to Jocelyn Elders? (0)
A filthy, disgusting habit that will eventually destroy us and cost us a fortune (4)
May you find what you're looking for (1)
not gay sex but man to man sex (5)
How Could I Have Missed This Website For So Long? (1)
We need donations now (0)
to deepen, not weaken, masculinity (3)
Iranians Execute Teen Frot Brothers (0)
Complicit in our own genocide (0)
I am my own man (2)
Frat Brother, Frot Warrior (0)
Married, straight, but my sexual fantasy is 100 percent frot (0)
Trannies and Pump Parties (0)
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a heroic cockrub warrior (1)
Size (4)
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The language of ought (0)
Buttboyz' bad behavior boosts Viagra ban; Rectal and throat swabs recommended for gay men (2)
Important New HIV Risk Study (2)
praying to find a frot brother (3)
"...were warriors at a time when boys now are like girls." (5)
It's the anal (0)
True Man to Man Sex (1)
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Shortcomings of Rakai (0)
Stop pretending (1)
Jack Nichols, 1938 - 2005 (2)
A love like no other (0)
my masculinity was slipping away (1)
West Side Story (0)
effeminate, strung out, deluded (1)
smells like shit, looks like shit, is shit (0)
We're way short for April (1)
Reflexive Thinking (1)
57% of HIV neg gay men have anal HPV (0)
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New Snail Mail Address (0)
The FROT debate on gay dot com heats up (1)
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to enjoy another man without labels (1)
I LOVE MEN (2)
Thanks... (2)
my friend, my equal, my brother (2)
Amid all the attention, donations are way too low (6)
Who created unsafe sex? (0)
nature does nothing without a purpose. (2)
Larry Kramer discusses Frot on gay dot com (4)
Shit Sex (1)
the IDENTITY MATRIX... (1)
Editorial: 100,000 and Counting (0)
Rare and Aggressive H.I.V. Reported in New York (2)
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BUT BY MY LOVE AND HOPE I BESEECH YOU (1)
being into guys without losing being a guy (7)
I HAD TO KICK SOME BUTTF****R ASS ...LITERALLY! (4)
LGV Redux (0)
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Donations are way too low. (1)
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An enlightenment of the Brotherhood of Frot (0)
Live for Honor...Fight for Honor...and for Victory... (4)
Where do I fit? (1)
We need donations now! (0)
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aggression and the beauty of guys (2)
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an anus is not a vagina (1)
World AIDS Day 2004: HIV / AIDS Cases Rise 11% Among MSM (0)
First time frottaging (0)
Your ass ain't a vagina! (1)
The best game ever! (0)
just musing (1)
Who is Bill Weintraub and why is 365Gay Censoring His Posts (10)
fighting touching and kissing with a man (0)
David and Jonathan: Kristof Agrees (0)
physical closeness - like between brothers - but not making love (5)
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Orally transmitted STD among gay men (0)
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my first time (6)
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My Whole Life..... (0)
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rubbing and kissing (0)
AIDS: The Elusive Vaccine (0)
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We need donations (6)
the intimacy two men can share (2)
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skin2skin (0)
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first time (0)
cock to cock and man to man (6)
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AIDS Inc Cashes In (1)
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FrotMen.Org (3)
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HOT FROT The Princeton Club (0)
my dream (0)
It's our time NOW, are you ready? (10)
Rectal Secretions from "Men who have Sex with Men" Contain More HIV than Blood or Semen (3)
Negative Counseling and Unsafe Sex -- or, why David McQuarrie was right (0)
i felt so alone (5)
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it used to make me sick (0)
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Super Gonorrhea, Drug Resistant Syphilis (0)
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Brett memorial (2)
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Frot strengthens your manhood in every way (0)
In Awe... (6)
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a little bit of olive oil (0)
Love Among the Celts (2)
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not lifestyles but lives (1)
Bless you! (0)
When David was the butch and Jonathan his bitch (0)
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Kindred spirits unite! (0)
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We are all warriors, we just need to know the direction of the battle. (2)
frottage and monogamy (0)
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A Real Man Doesn't Fuck Another Man (0)
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i have no problems fighting (1)
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the way i originally felt my life should go (1)
Finally....It's Not Just Sex (0)
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I asked a friend if he would box with me (0)
saturday afternoons 4pm (1)
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DONATE (0)
the first time............ (1)
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INITIATION (3)
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Lonely this weekend? (0)
OnceBitten (0)
I am finally home (1)
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Ex-gay ministries -- a letter from Chuck Tarver (0)
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Harvey Fierstein's Trope (1)
AIDS Cases on the Rise in United States (0)
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let me show you something (0)
Do condoms work? (0)
What have you done lately for the Alliance? (0)
What Sex Is (1)
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why i am alive today (0)
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finaly, a viewpoint I can relate to (1)
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Your Safer-Sex Establishment at Work Pt III: Syphilis at the White Party (0)
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Penis, Energy, and Phallic Bonding (0)
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the most physically and emotionally (0)
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If they can do it in Uganda, why can't we do it here? (1)
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Frot sex (1)
Beatific continued (0)
Bug Chasers -- A Straight Man's View (0)
I felt like I was alone (1)
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Of Soldiers... (2)
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anal sex nightmare and warning to others (0)
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Bill Weintraub should be knighted -- a letter to Lisa Whittemore (0)
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start a new discussion


NEW POSTING PROCEDURE

PLEASE READ




Hey COCKRUBBIN DICK2DICK SEX WRESTLIN WARRIOR DUDE,

Welcome to our Man2Man Alliance Personal Stories message board.

When I began what became the Alliance in October of 2000, I didn't foresee how important the Personal Stories message board would become.

But that board quickly became the heart of the Alliance -- a place where guys could share their dreams, their hopes,  and their true life stories.

Those first person accounts proved invaluable. There's simply nothing more compelling or more real.

So in a very short time this board has shaped not just our Alliance but the thinking of the entire Frot movement.

I encourage you to join the discussion.

Three types of posts are welcome here:

First-person, true-life accounts of your life as a man into frot.

Political discussions on topics such as "how do we define ourselves" or "what's wrong with anal" or "what do we need to do next strategically."

Calls to political action, such as email campaigns to sites like GayHealth.com.

Again, this board is for true-life accounts.

Fantasy and fiction should not be posted here, but should be labeled as such and sent to me in the body of an email.

IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE ALLIANCE, I encourage you to spend some time reading the discussions before posting. Please remember that we are an advocacy site, and posts which don't help us further our goals will not be approved. Again, it's important to read before you post.

And remember, Personal Ads should be placed in FROT CLUB.

HOW TO POST

You can either start a new discussion by clicking here:

Or add a reply to a pre-existing discussion.

You're encouraged to enter a user name and valid email address, though you can post anonymously. And if you want even more anonymity, you can send your story to me in the body an email, and I'll post it for you.

Posts from this board and our original MSN board, as well as accounts that came to me via email, are regularly archived under

Where they're seen by tens of thousands of people.

So I hope you'll check them out.

And then post.

On this Personal Stories board, guys into frot -- guys like yourself -- can speak the truth of their lives.

And in our fight, there's no ally more powerful than truth.

bill

PS

Please note that you can also visit this board in its HTML version by clicking here.

The content of the boards is identical.

The only difference is that when you click on a message in the left hand message bar on the HTML board, the page which opens is in HTML.

It's a webpage.

Those pages load more quickly, and they're easier to read.

But again, the content is identical on both boards.

On both boards, the most recent posts are at the top of the message list.

And if you're new to the Alliance, the best thing you can do is just start reading those messages -- from the top down.

bill

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